‘Conspiracy’ the Favoured Word of Pro-Fluoridation Extremists

65 Comments

For those new to this debate over the fluoridation of water supplies (mandatory or otherwise), it may surprise you to learn that most of the so-called ‘conspiracy theory’ talk comes from the pro-fluoridation lobby, not anti-fluoridation campaigners concerned with presenting the ethical and scientific case against fluoridation.

In fact, the scientific opponents of fluoridation repeatedly reject conspiracy theories regarding the practice (e.g. Connett, Beck & Micklem 2010, p. 85, p. 256), instead choosing to focus their energy on discussing the primary literature and issues such as informed consent to treatment.

However, this does not stop proponents of fluoridation lumping all opponents into the conspiracy theorist category. Sure, there are still plenty of whackos out there who insist on peddling the baseless ‘Nazi’ argument and so forth, but the real question is why do those who promote fluoridation avoid debates (apart from some rare exceptions) with the scientific opponents fluoridation, choosing instead to default to the general conspiracy smear?

The main answer is, this is the easiest option for proponents who cannot answer the tough questions, although the simplistic default conspiracy smear is becoming laughable to increasingly informed members of the public who – like the scientific opponents of fluoridation – refuse to lower themselves to baseless conspiracy theorising.

One favourite tactic of the pro-fluoridation lobby and their media lackeys is to deliberately mix fact with conspiracy, hoping that the public will automatically accept the ‘conspiracy’ label without further investigation. Here is a recent example of this tactic, in relation to fluoridation chemicals:

“Public water fluoridation is really just a secret way for chemical companies to dump the dangerous byproducts of phosphate mines into the environment” (Richmond 2014).

Notice how the conspiracy connotation (see original article) has been deliberately inserted to lull the reader into believing that anyone claiming that phosphate byproducts are being added to water supplies, must be some kind of nut job? What are the plain facts, without the connotation?:

– Are phosphate industry byproducts dangerous to the environment? Yes, that’s why there are restrictions on industry, obliging them to capture these dangerous byproducts before they enter the environment and cause damage.

– Are these byproducts then used to fluoridate public water supplies? Yes, they are. Not even the chemical companies themselves deny this fact, as extensively documented here. For example, this is what one Australian producer of fluoridation chemicals openly states on its own website: “Fluorosilicic acid is a co-product of CSBP’s superphosphate manufacturing process. Fluorosilicic acid is used to fluoridate drinking water” (CSBP n.d.). However, if an anti-fluoridation campaigner were to state this as a fact in a public arena, they would automatically be labeled a ‘conspiracy theorist.’

– Is it financially advantageous for these companies to sell their byproducts to water suppliers to fluoridate public water supplies? Well of course it is. Just like any company in a market capitalist system, profits are legally and openly accrued via the sale of a product to a consumer of that product. In this case, the product(s) are fluoridation chemicals.

So, where is the conspiracy theory? These are just plain facts. However, with the media’s crude preemptive conspiracy theory association with these facts, the proverbial water is quite cunningly being muddied to favour the proponents of fluoridation.

What can you do about all this?

Keep calmly and rationally presenting the scientific and ethical case against fluoridation, and stay away from actual conspiracy theorising (unless you have solid evidence for a genuine conspiracy taking place). Those whom you are trying to convince to support your case will soon realise that you are not the one constantly bringing ‘conspiracies’ into the debate, but that your pro-fluoridation detractors are. It will quickly be noticed that the proponents of fluoridation are doing so because they are unable to defeat your case in any comprehensive, rational manner, and instead are retreating to childish attacks. This can only work, over time, in your favour.

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Author: AFA Mildura

Administrator, Anti-Fluoridation Association of Mildura

65 thoughts on “‘Conspiracy’ the Favoured Word of Pro-Fluoridation Extremists

  1. Hello, I have some very important information for you, if you would, please share it with as many people as you can as soon as possible.

    No Well Waters are safe or suitable for animal consumption and plant growth, because one small glass of Well Water, on average, contains the Fluoride equivalent of one pea sized dab of Fluoridated Toothpaste, Fluorides are harmful in any amount, and there is almost always more than 0.7 parts per million of Fluoride in all Well Waters.

    We have effectively increased our exposure to Fluorides on average by 50,000% when we choose to expose our selves to this water source, that is in comparison to the majority of our evolutionary history of drinking surface waters that contain which contain roughly 500x less fluoride, although, some wells may even be contaminated with levels as high as 12+ ppm.

    I believe that most people do not understand the science of why fluoride’s are so dangerous, so I’d like to explain why, but first I’d like to point out the fact that we are the only life on this planet to dig deep holes in the ground to obtain water to drink, at least deep enough to contaminate our water with high levels of fluoride in this way.

    The safest alternative is distilled water, or rain water (I suggest a collection time during long periods of rain to avoid polluted air contamination), filters like reverse osmosis do not do enough and they hardly filter the majority of fluorides at all because most naturally occurring fluorides are relatively small compounds, but they may help filter many larger fluoride compounds like those which may be additionally added to water supplies by many city water suppliers. Regardless of which fluorides are getting through, distilled water, or rain, will remove them all, except those leached into water droplets through out atmosphere, rain will be especially vulnerable to this and there are about 50 parts per billion of hydrogen fluoride / other fluoride gasses in our atmosphere, but rain collected should contain less than 0.008 parts per million of fluorides on average.

    So, why are fluorides dangerous…?

    Besides specific bond formations that may occur within the body and disrupt normal biological processes, like that of calcium bonds in our bones rather than our teeth due to excessive fluorides in the blood stream, here is the key issue behind fluorides disastrous effects, which continue be disastrous even after bonds like this occur.

    “Electronegativity”, which is the tendency to draw in electron mass, is a fundamental atomic property of all the elements on the periodic table, out of all these 118 elements of the Periodic Table, the element fluorine has the highest Electronegativity, and, more importantly, one eighth of the entire spectrum of Electronegativy for these Elements on the Periodic Table, is a gap between Element Oxygen, and Element Fluorine.

    Let me just repeat that once again…

    1/8th, of the entire spectrum of Electronegativity, for the elements on the periodic table, is a gap, between elements oxygen and fluorine.

    That kind of Electronegative energy, drawing in electrons in a biological system, (which is a finely tuned system of exchanging electrons), will extremely distort functions of biological systems, especially systems that have not evolved to cope with the levels of Fluoride they are being exposed to.

    We are 70% water like most life on this planet, and only throughout roughly the last 100,000 years or so have we begun digging these holes in the ground to obtain water.

    Evolution does not occur rapidly enough for this fluoride contaminated water to really be called “safe” by now, one quick example of the the slow progression of evolution is that we split from Chimpanzee’s / Bonobo’s nearly 7 million years ago.

    There is roughly 500 times less fluoride in natural sources of water like rain, or springs, even rivers and lakes, than there is in this water from holes in the ground. Drinking and using this water for farming, globally, is destroying our bodies, developing a wide spectrum of health issues for us, our pets, and our plants, I’m sure you’ve noticed we are the only wild animals getting cancer.

    A good example of the powerful Electronegativity that the Element Fluorine has is when experiments are done in it’s pure state as a Gas, in this state, it is so reactive, that almost any substance, Glass, Metals, or even WATER, BURN, with a Bright Flame in a Jet of Fluorine Gas, WITHOUT the need for a Spark.

    This incredibly high Electronegativite Energy still lingers even after Fluorine forms a bond with positive ions, and these are what we call “Fluoride’s”.

    Among the wide spectrum of various health Issues fluoride can cause, Cancer is a big one, but i’d like to focus on another not so obvious symptom of fluoride exposure.

    I think it is crucial to understand this particular issue, i’ll start with the fact that we are 70% water, we need a lot of water each and every day, and our body can detect the amounts of Fluoride, along with the minerals that end up in our water as it is processed for use in the blood stream, and if this amount is higher than the natural levels we have evolved to cope with, our brains have evolved a coping mechanism which attempts to put a damper on precious processes such as higher cognitive functions involved with imagination, functions that are involved with implementing new neurons, or functions that strengthen new neurons and neurons already in use for more reliable access. This damper is done as a way to preserve these functions for more significant moments, which will be judged by your conscious thought and with emotions, rather than just allowing these functions to be used all the time, because doing so would damage neurons your trying to strengthen if there are fluorides present in the blood stream. (this is hard for me to explain so I hope you understand.)

    This damper is the reason why cognitive dissonance occurs in the minds of so many people, many of us who are so heavily poisoned by these fluorides would much rather rely on a set of neurons that are already hardwired and therefore reliable, than to risk developing new ones that may be distorted by the presence of excessive amounts of fluorides.

    Stress, Anxiety, and Depression, are emotions that help you to overcome this damper that the Human Brain Implements, these emotions help your conscious mind in ways that get you “worked up” enough to use these higher cognitive functions, it is like forcing your brain to use these parts it’s trying to preserve (imagination and functions that are involved with implementing new neurons) because your consciously telling it that you think what your doing is extremely important. A good example of this, is if your having a discussion with your boss at work and he is noticeably upset because you didn’t do your job right, you’ll stress your self out over this kind of event in order to strengthen particular neurons for more reliable access so it won’t happen again.

    That sort of behavior can cause someone to act impulsively, i’m sure you’ve seen it many times even with your self, we want to stick to a set of reliable and hardwired neurons, as if we know it all and we don’t need improvement on our methods or awareness of particular things… and many times cognitive dissonance will occur as we try to avoid stress, anxiety, and depression, as we are met with concepts perhaps true, which seem counter intuitive to us.

    To make it short, excessive fluoride in the blood stream can literally makes it stressful to try to imagine and develop new ways of thinking… Your brain is telling you not too do something via these emotions, because of fluorides present in your blood stream, and unless you overcome this stress with your conscious judgement of importance, like realization of truth and excitement for learning this truth, cognitive dissonance will occur.

    Money, and other various ways of cultures, will keep us plugging along sticking to Hardwired Neurons doing something we wish we weren’t doing, or preforming a job which barely pays at all, perhaps worthless and unsustainable as well. There are many various ways our cultures promote these bad ideas, among each other in this adversity, must stand up for the rights of our planet, to live sustainability, to do so we must use our consciousness to it’s utmost potential, that means getting off of fluoride as soon as possible…. that’s the first step I believe. Money is evil in the sense that it is a false incentive and provides many unconscious opportunity’s for the destruction of our planet, it will promote the success of particular neurons, meanwhile demoting others, and we rewarded our selves self chemically when we receive “money” for doing a job right, or when we receive / spend / have money, this strengthens those neurons even further, it’s all about money sometimes, and not the actual thing it’s self.

    Rain (Like Distillation) = Averages 0.008 ppm (parts per million) fluoride.
    Surface Waters (For example, Lakes, Rivers, Springs) = Averages 0.05 ppm fluoride.
    Bottled Water = Averages 0.1 ppm fluoride.
    Well Water = Ranges from 0.7 – 12+ ppm fluoride .
    Tap Water = Ranges from 0.7 – 12+ ppm fluoride (In america, the maximum allowance is 4.0 ppm, regulated by the FDA).

    Additionally fluoridated water supplies often use chemicals we’ve never even come into contact with throughout the last 3.5 billion years of evolution here on earth, for example, chemicals like Sodium fluorosilicate (Na2SiF6)and HydroFluorosilicic acid (H2SiF6). Fluoridation of a public water supply is medication without consent.

    Some Of The Easiest Thing And Most Important Thing You Can And Should Do Immediately to avoid the majority of Fluoride Exposure, Is to drink distilled water, and to avoid tea or tobacco, they both contain very high levels of fluoride.

    Distilled water is very inexpensive, it cost roughly $0.88 for a 1 Gallon jug which is available at nearly every grocery store, otherwise you can order it from a water supplier like “Culigan”, for nearly the same price.

    Please start drinking distilled water, or rain water (collected sometime near the end of a storm, during a long duration of rain preferably, to give time to clean the atmosphere and avoid polluted air contamination) as soon as possible, drink, cook, and process your foods with this water.

    Distilled water and rain water, are the process of evaporating water, collecting and condensing the Vapors, which will leave you with 100% uncontaminated (no dissolved solids) h2o.

    If your worried about not getting enough minerals anymore once you switch to distilled water, let me assure you that if you eat acidic fruits, or add some lime or lemon (Organic) to your distilled water, you will be completeeeely fine… and feeling much better than you were before.

    For water with more alkalinity, you can add coconut water to your distilled water, and there are plenty more options out there for you to try, but a proper food diet is all that is necessary, many fruits will contain all the minerals you need in your diet, Banana, Cantaloupe, Water Melon, etc, fruit is incredibly healthy, especially raw fresh fruit, which happens to contain incredibly low levels of fluoride as well, especially if grown organically.

    Home Water Distilling Units range in Price from 100$ which is sufficient to start drinking, to 1000$ which will be ridiculously efficient, supporting your entire Family and a Home Garden as well, although rain can be very sufficient for a home garden if unpolluted, rain water (<0.008 ppm fluoride)

    If you decide to distill rain, or even reverse osmosis water, you will never have to clean your distillation unit, you will only need to drain the water from the boiling tank occasionally and replace the post filter every 2-5 months.

    Fluorine is in low friction "plastics" such as Teflon which is a molecule comprised of only carbon and fluorine atoms, when Teflon Coated Cookware is Heated, it will release Carbon Fluoride Vapors into the Air or into your Food, do not use Teflon for this reason, and it is well known to cause cancer,

    Aluminum is very dangerous as well, it will increase the toxic build up of Fluorides in the Human Body, avoid aluminum cookware because it aluminum has a low melting point and if scraped, bits of it will end up in your food, small amounts may boil off into water or evaporate like Teflon as well.

    Aluminum is the 3rd most abundant element in the Earth's Crust, and Fluorine is the 13th most abundant element in the Earths Crust: An average of 950 ppm of Fluoride are contained in it. Top Soils contain approximately 330 ppm of Fluorine, ranging from 150 to 400 ppm. Some Soils can have as much as 1000 ppm, and contaminated soils from industrial processes have been found with 3500 ppm.

    Rain water has 0.008 ppm as I've mentioned, and it is what the majority of the water that the Life on this Planet has evolved to cope with, waters are further contaminated when they make contact with the surface of this planet, and the further down those waters go before they are dug up from wells for various human purposes, the more contaminated they are going to be.

    Fluorine that is located in Soils may potentially accumulate in Plants, Especially the Tobacco or Tea plants, i'd like to suggest to you that you avoid exposing your body to these two plants in particular, you can find very credible information on wikipedia about them and their fluoride contamination.

    The amount of uptake of fluoride by Plants depends upon the type of Plant, and the type of Soil, and the amount and type of Fluoride found in the Soil / Water.

    Too much Fluoride, whether taken in from the Soil by Roots, or absorbed from the Atmosphere by the Leaves, retards the growth of Plants and reduces Crop Yields. Growing plants with well water is like pumping the fluoride equivalent of 25 to 100+ tubes of fluoridated tooth paste in with the soil throughout the plants life… that's because well water averages a 0.7 ppm contamination of fluoride… and unfortunately that is what I assume the majority of our foods are grown with at this time.

    With Plants that are Sensitive to Fluoride Exposure, even Low Concentrations of Fluoride can cause Leaf Damage, and a Decline in Growth.

    Although Fluoride was once considered an Essential Nutrient, the U.S. National Research Council has since removed this Designation due to the lack of Studies showing it is essential for Human growth.

    It is important to note that if Fluorides are absorbed too frequently it will cause Calcification of the mammalian Pineal Gland. The Pineal Gland is Biological Filter for Fluoride. It has the most Profuse Blood Flow 2nd only to the Kidneys, with the Highest Concentrations of Fluoride throughout the entire Mammalian Body, ranging from 20,000 ppm to 25,000 ppm.

    Both the Pineal Gland and The Kidneys turn Fluorides from our Diet / Blood Stream (note: Smoking, Vaporizing, Water Vapors in the shower, Air (15-50 ppb) into Calcium Fluorides, which are safer to process out of the body. The Pineal Gland processes built up calcium fluorides to safely exit the body through urine at night, the process involves the molecule n,n-DMT which is produced naturally in the Pineal Gland, many plants contain this molecule, and this molecule is good medicine for decalcification of the Pineal Gland if taken before your sleep as concentrated dried plant matter (nearly boil plant matter containing n,n-DMT, let settle for an hour, scoop off top layer of water and dry it in a glass dish), the urge to urinate will increase and you should wake up to do so accordingly. The molecule n,n-dmt neutralizes the electronegative effects of fluorides in the blood stream by clumping together with fluorides to help them safely exit the body.

    If these two filters cannot handle the fluoride they are being exposed to, then Fluorides may end up in other calcium deposits throughout our bodies, like our Bones, which can cause Skeletal Flurosis, (which may lead to Arthritis or Joint Pains), this may even be the general cause of Arthritis.

    Dental Flurosis (White spots on Teeth) which may lead to Tooth Decay, is an obvious sign of wider systemic damage.

    This information is updated as frequently as I can update it at DamageReport.org

    An obvious indication of a significant reduction in fluoride exposure to your body is remembering your dreams from each time you sleep, and vividly.

    (You are experiencing a subjective reality, and there are many others experiencing a subjective reality as well, but we are all the universe it's self, and so we must not activate neural pain networks.)

    Much Love,

    – И

  2. The title “Conspiracy Theorist” is only used when someone feels threatened that they could be incorrect. I consider it a compliment when/if the term is used for me. When one suffers from chemical sensitivity why should one be ridiculed?


  3. ┏━┳┳┳┓ ┏━┳━━┳┳┳┓
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    Over the last several decades, the human consciousness has been saturated with a huge intertwining web of conspiracy theories, which are often too overwhelming for the average human to understand and may in fact provide people with more questions than answers.

    And if someone is to suddenly see the bigger picture of what is really going on, and seriously tries to alert others, then the public has been carefully trained to view them as a crackpot or label them as another “conspiracy theorist.”

    It has been very cleverly orchestrated so that no one ever discovers the whole truth about anything and if anyone ever does figure it out, they are ridiculed and silenced. Now however, due to the growth of the internet, it has become a lot harder to silence people and to keep information contained.

    So what if a global conspiracy does indeed exist? And people are kept blind to it because they have been carefully taught to associate the word theory with the word conspiracy, so that they never take the time to see that which is right before their eyes. And what if this conspiracy also deeply affects our future, our education system, our media, our government, our monetary system, and our beautiful planet? If such a conspiracy does indeed exist the most certainly it would affect everyone on a personal level, so would it not be imperative for you to become aware of such information, both for your own well being, and that of your children.

    It’s quite understandable that due to the overwhelming nature of this topic, many people do not even want to begin to look into such things. But if one does take the time to look and steps back a little further, a definite picture comes clearly into view and what is found is a situation that could be easily rectified if people would simply take the time to become aware.

    Whether you decide to take the time to listen to so called conspiracy theories or not, there are some things that should be clearly understood by all. And these are not conspiracy theories by any stretch of the imagination, they are well documented, quite traceable and very provable facts. And these facts are as follows.
    There is one ruling bloodline that exists on this earth. This ruling bloodline is very old. It is the same Bloodline that has always ruled the earth ever since the days of ancient Egypt and it is very pervasive.

    For example, many people think that anyone can get to be President of the United States, but the reality is, that a large number of Presidents are in fact related, and their lineage can be traced back to European Monarchy and in particular to the line of William of Orange. This elite Bloodline can actually be traced back a good deal further than that and even back as far as the royalty of ancient Egypt and it is this very same bloodline that has ruled the earth ever since and to which the British Monarchy and many other world leaders can ultimately be traced.
    The families of this line are steeped in ancient traditions and symbolism and they do not attempt to hide these connections. Just a look at the Royal Coat of Arms, the Royal Regalia and the Coronation Throne clearly demonstrates these connections. In fact the signs and symbols are always right there in plain view for discerning eyes to clearly see. One only needs take the time to look.

    http://www.thecrowhouse.com/callingtrans.html

    • Well put. The only ‘theory’ I agree is indeed just a theory, is THE THEORY OF GLOBAL WARMING. This theory was dependent on manmade simulations and unfortunately for these proglobal warming theorists, when the globe STOPPED warming 17 years ago (UK Met Office confirmed this), this pseudo scientists have had to chuck out their carefully constructed CON. Of course, the promoters of global warming (The evil Club of Rome) continued to fool the sheeple by changing the term to ‘Climate change’, a totally meaningless term that can mean whatever they want it to imply. Wake up sheeple! You are still being mindcontrolled by their ventrilquist mainstream media.

      • Be aware that The Club of Rome is one of Rockefeller’s too numerous to mention front organisations, as is the United Nations (built on Rockefeller ‘donated’ land). The ‘harmless’ United Nations is right now working on a global taxation regime for every human on the planet to finance an extension of its powers for its New World Order/One World Government. Of course, Rockefeller is just one member of the globalist money power elite.

  4. My 3 questions are always –
    (1) When fluoride is mention in general, what type are they referring to?

    (2) What do you think of the delivery system used to get the fluoride to the intended target?
    In many many other instances a corporation would immediately sack their staff if they came up with the concept of 99.7% of the product missing the target it was aiming at.

    (3) Is fluoride a neurotoxin or a nutrient.
    Forced fluoridation flies in the face of freedom of choice.(medication, treatment, etc) Even if it was as effective as it’s said to be, it is still against the ethics of medicine or human right to consume the nutrients of our choosing.

  5. Reblogged this on Australian Safe Water Letter Archive (ASWLA) and commented:
    Ongoing debate happening – please add your comments:

  6. Bit of a porkie to claim “why do those who promote fluoridation avoid debates.” It is just not true. I myself debated Connett in The Fluoride Debate – http://openparachute.wordpress.com/fluoride-debate/. This was very extensive with 8 exchanges and the complete exchange is available as a PDF document of about 200 pages – http://openparachute.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/download-the-fluoride-debate/

    Also, I notice that in Internet debates on this issue while supporter of CWF in their blogs and Facebook pages welcome the anti-F people and debate them – almost without fail we are excluded from the anti-F Facebook pages and blogs – your bog is an exception at the moment.

    Some come off it – you are sounding like a conspiracy theorist to claim we avoid debates when the evidence is that the anti-F people do most of he avoiding.

    I can understand why as the debate with Connett showed that he and his mates really do not have science on their side – in fact they continually misrepresent the science.

    • I should have added I am currently attempting to organise a similar exchange with Declan Waugh – he has so far not responded at all to my communications. Seems to me he is avoiding the opportunity to debate his claims scientifically.

    • I followed your link but there was so much vitriol/personal attacks on this Paul person (shooting the messenger rather than staying on topic) that I gave up eventually. I left a comment that I am very happy that Cairns water supply does not use fluoride (the council started then stopped after a few months), and that if a want fluoride for my teeth I get a twice daily dosage in my toothpaste. Don’t know why you ‘moderated’ the comment into the censorship basket black hole? I placed 2 more comments after that. I guess they will go nowhere too.

    • Ken, we did write “apart from some rare exceptions” and gave a link to the Connett vs. Farren debate ( http://fluoridealert.org/fan-tv/arizona-debate/ ). We are aware of your blog posts, but we thought one example was enough. Are you feeling left out? Sorry about that. Well, how about this – when you debate Connett face to face, send us the video, and we will gladly link to it.

      • I enjoy a good discussion – especially where there is an opportunity to look at claims in detail. Unfortunately in NZ the Fluoride Free organisations refuse to participate in such discussions. Even when people have quoted me in their own contributions the comments have been deleted.

        • Well, we don’t play games like that. If pro-fluoridation people have something to say, they are welcome to say it here in full, unedited.

          • Great, I have the same policy. As I said, I enjoy a good discussion and am keen to examine the claims made by anti-fluoride activists.

            Unfortunately, in NZ these activists really do not have the confidence to defend their claims in a scientific exchange.

            • We can’t speak for New Zealand. We are based in country Victoria, Australia. Speaking for our area, the reason we formed was in objection to having fluoridation forced upon our community without a vote being taken. When we organised a community referendum, where people were allowed to vote one way or the other, or abstain, the results clearly showed 94% community opposition. These results were passed to our political representatives, who then notified the Parliament of the state. Still, fluoridation was forced. And before anyone argues that one side of the argument was given to the community more than the other, not true. Both pro and anti-fluoridation campaigners had plenty of opportunity to present their case across all media. Still, the community didn’t want fluoridation. So, based on the democratic principle, we claim our right to object. Not sure about the situation in New Zealand, but that’s really the business of your respective communities to work out.

              • I agree – the community should have the right to decide controversial issues like this. In NZ our experience is different to yours. Last year our local council stopped fluoridation after being hijacked by anti-fluoride activists. Protests forced the council to hold a referendum which showed almost 70% support for fluoridation. Since then there have been legal and other attempts by activists to prevent the council from acting democratically and reintroducing fluoridation. Finally last month the council voted 9 to 1 to reintroduce fluoridation. But still the activists are trying to prevent it.

                Fluoride Free and FANNZ show themselves to be anti-democratic and the public see them as bullies with their legal threats. No wonder they refuse to allow discussion on the Facebook pages.

                • We have roughly been following the situation in New Zealand (from a distance), but we don’t know all the intricate details to give any specific comments on the matter. It all seems rather messy over there.

                • PS. Put it this way – if our community (here in the Sunraysia region) were all in favour of fluoridation, and a legitimate official community vote was taken (instead of the measure being forced), we wouldn’t be bothering anyone anymore. We would have disbanded and accepted defeat. But until that time comes, we continue to do our best to represent those in our community who feel they have been wronged by the state government by having fluoridation forced upon them. We also do our best to present the case against fluoridation, to the best of our ability.

                  • I would be interested to hear other comments here about this – if the majority if voters support fluoridation you would pack up and accept the will of the people.

                    That certainly is not the approach of the FANNZ people in NZ – they deride public opinion and want to force their own will on the public.

                    • Yes Ken, if the state government of Victoria organises an official, legitimate referendum, and our community votes in favour of fluoridation, we will accept defeat. Sure, we will leave this blog up as a record of our arguments against fluoridation, and people are welcome to use it in any way they want to, but we wouldn’t actively bother people any more on the matter. I’d say that’s fair. But until democracy is given a chance, we don’t apologise for our actions.

                    • Furthermore, Ken, even with the democratic system in place on this issue, that still means that 51% of the population can force the other 49% of the population to be exposed to fluoridation treatment via drinking water (and subsequent food processing). Then those upon whom treatment is being administered – without consent – have a potential legal case to mount, as is their legal right to pursue. As you know, we have focused on the informed consent issue regularly [ http://wp.me/p2ZRjZ-qH ] and on that basis, among others, we will continue to object to fluoridation as this issue of informed consent to treatment cannot be solved once fluoridation of water supplies commences, regardless of the fluctuations of democratic votes over time.

    • PS. Ken, as we have done since 2008, when we refer to debate, we generally refer to “open public debate” (i.e. face to face, man to man) before a large-scale community meeting. After all, if fluoridation promoters are arguing that said community must be force-fluoridated, then it is only right they have the balls to stand on a podium and defend that view against Dr. Connett. Time and time again, we’ve seen the chicken feathers flying when we put that challenge to them. You can enjoy your random Internet debates where you have all your attack dogs at the ready to back you up, but we would much prefer you to debate Connett face to face, have it professionally video recorded, and uploaded to the Web for all to freely view.

      • The scientific exchange between me and Paul was decided after discussion – we started with the concept of a public meeting. I has suggested it but he was not prepared to visit my city for it. However, the Internet exchange was his suggestion – I think it was a good suggestion as one can address specific issues in more detail and with proper citations.

        I get the impression Paul regrets the format now as he was shown to be quite wrong with many of his citations.

        I know you people are unhappy about a situation where your claims are in record and are analysed on record. It really does show how you go in for distortion.

        • On the contrary, I don’t believe Paul would be upset if he made any mistakes. I think he’d be grateful they were pointed out. For example, on this video, he openly states that if mistakes have been made, he wants to know about them: http://youtu.be/FRIdsxT3IGc

          • Paul did actually acknowledge some mistakes he had made in our exchange – but it took him an extremely long time. He, for example, continued to conflate the information I presented on the Republic of Ireland. He diverted away from the issue when I showed that his presentation of the situation in Cuba and the former East Germany after stopping fluoridation was confounded by use of fluoride rinses and dental applications of fluoride. He avoided my point abut the extremely poor quality of Xiang’s paper and the poor refereeing by the Fluoride journal of it and in the end acknowledged that he couldn’t understand the logic used in it so tried to adopt a different approach. By the end of our exchange Paul actually got very emotional and had to rewrite his final article because of its length and personal attacks.

            While I enjoyed my exchange with Paul and think it is a useful record it really upset local antI-fluoridation leaders. As a result they have blocked me personally from commenting on their Facebook pages.

    • The Parrot is dishonest, as usual. He didn’t really debate Paul Connett, he debated a strawman because he couldn’t refute the arguments which were made. He has been repeatedly and separately challenged by Paul Connett and I to produce some scientific evidence in favour of his position, and consistently refuses to do so. When I tried to post links to peer-reviewed journal articles on his blog, he blocked the comment and blocked me from his blog. I was also censored on the Making Nonsense of Fluoride page. In fact I’ve had many, many comments blocked on many different sites, especially in Australia and New Zealand, for no good reason. Others have reported similar experiences.

      • Dan, I realise you are upset that Paul performed so badly in our exchange. Paul actually did acknowledge some of his errors – but I am sure he will repeat them. He is not interested in the truth, after all.

        Dan, only one of your comments has been held back on my blog as far as I am aware. This was automatic because it contained 16 links! Many more than leads to automatic rejection. I decided not to release the comment for moderation because it was personally abusive. You were of course welcome to resubmit without the abuse and a reasonable approach to links.

        Your own comment is revealing that you have had “many comments blocked on many different sites.” I am not surprised as you instinctively are abusive in your comments. Name calling doesn’t make you look at all credible.

        Recently you went so far as to say your would withdraw from an anti-fluoride Facebook group as it was allowing me to comment. Are you going to withdraw from commenting here for the same reason?

        Dan, you have an anger problem which it has created a nasty reputation for you. Face up to it and get some help.

        • Parrot, your performance in that “debate” was hilarious. I have never seen a bigger load of repetitive, irrelevant waffle in my life than your contribution. It’s funny how you claim that you blocked my comment because it was personally abusive, yet you didn’t block personally abusive comments from your little group of devotees. Your claim that I was welcome to resubmit without the abuse and a reasonable approach to links is a lie, because as I said I was completely blocked from the blog after that. A large majority of the comments I’ve had blocked on other sites have either not been abusive at all, or no more so than comments from forced-fluoridation fruitcakes which have been accepted. You are the shameless child abuser here, Parrot, so it’s you who should be getting help. Personally I think that freaks like you should be asked to provide some credible scientific evidence to support your case, and when you inevitably fail to come up with anything, you should be blocked because you are a complete waste of time and space.

          • Dan, you do need to be aware & informed, that shills, agents etc; are defiantly out there, doing their dirty work!

            ┏━┳┳┳┓ ┏━┳━━┳┳┳┓
            ┃━┫┃┃┃ ┃┗┣┓┏┫┃┃┃
            ┃┏╋┓┃┃ ┃┏┃┃┃┃┃┃┃
            ┗┛┗━┻┛ ┗━┛┗┛┗━━┛
            How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations
            https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

            ✚✚✚

            Someone posted the following, interesting comment on Jean Haines blog, just recently!
            ( ☞ http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/)
            ⒷⓉⓌ
            There have been revelations recently about the methods used by the governments to infiltrate, misrepresent, and discredit people, information, social media and sites. A training manual used by GCHQ reveals exactly how those employed by the governments are trained and instructed to do so. I have lost track of the direct link to the GCHQ manual/article, but I sent it to Mark Windows of The Peoples Voice, and he has reprinted much of it in an article on his site, which is http://www.land of the free.co.uk. His article is about police intrusion and abuse; he also reveals in detail and for the record how he was personally targeted at TPV.

            Another article is by Doug Hagman, dated 28 February 2014 on CanadaFreePress.com. It is entitled “Global Ministries of Disinformation Confirmed.”

            This information will assure anyone with any doubts that the depths to which the government will sink to discredit and abuse those who stand up to it are virtually limitless.

          • Dan – shouldn’t have to point the is out – “Parrot,” “forced-fluoridation fruitcakes,” “shameless child abuser,” “freak,” etc. and that is extremely mild for your. Get help.

            • Parrot, you didn’t point anything out, you just parroted some of the terms I used. Parroting appears to be the only thing you are capable of, hence the name.

    • My question is what is your motive? Why are you pushing an agenda to enable the fluoride industry? We already have the stuff in our toothpaste so why are you so obssessed with forcing it into our water supplies and down our throats? Why don’t you just take fluoride in YOUR drinking water if you are so keen?

  7. Pse advise why you are holding back my comment about the source of the term ‘conspiracy theory’.

  8. So true. Now if only the mainstream media would do their job properly, instead of kowtowing to corporate interests, this unethical, unsafe, outdated practice would soon cease. But then media owners probably have fingers in the corporate pies that gain from continuing fluoridation, so that’s not likely to happen any time soon!

  9. The term ‘conspiracy theory’ was first coined to deflect the critical and relevant information highlighting conflicting facts on the official storyline of the murder of JFK. Once the public had started recovering from their ‘shock and awe’, many became aware that there were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the story line.

    Immediately the organs of the world’s biggest disinformation organisation, the Tavistock Institute (the global lie factory) moved into top gear.

    Hosts on all the mainstream media received directives on how to silence this growing movement. They were all ordered to immediately attack and ridicule the messenger/witness by introducing the term “Conspiracy Theorist” and to repeat this term ad finitum, so that it was quickly firmly entrenched in the subconscious of the public.

    Guests were sneered at and shamed by being branded with the term ‘conspiracy theory’ and the public had no desire to be ‘tainted’ with such ridicule. The mind control technique worked so well that up until and including today it is constantly used by the corporate and state controlled media to deflect the public from listening to and examining the facts about to be revealed.

    We are under mind control every time this term is used and will be until we, the people, become aware of this tactic that keeps us dumbed down, and choose to exit the matrix of MSM, the medium that serves its masters well by feeding to the masses what they must believe. (read The Tavistock Institute by Dr John Coleman)

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